Leaders on Leadership featuring Krista Newkirk, President of the University of Redlands

Episode Transcript

Jay Lemons:

Hello. And thank you for listening. I’m Jay Lemons. Welcome to Leaders on Leadership, brought to you by Academic Search in the American Academic Leadership Institute. The purpose of our podcast is to share the stories of the people and the forces that have shaped leaders in higher education, and to learn more about their thoughts on leadership in the academy. I’m really excited, and pleased, and delighted to be joined by a colleague and friend, Krista Newkirk. Krista is the president at the University of Redlands, where she is in the midst of leading transformative initiatives that are growing and strengthening the university’s academic offerings, its sustainability efforts, a focus on serving the Hispanic population of Southern California and Northern California, and a focus on student success. Krista is now in her fourth year at Redlands, and has recently guided the university through successful mergers with the Presidio Graduate School, and more recently the acquisition of Woodbury University.

And we will not be probably airing this for some time, but I’m really grateful to Krista for finding a way to be with us today as she is trying to help support the Woodbury community as it is being impacted by the devastating fires in Los Angeles here in early 2025. Krista’s leadership has positioned Redlands as a real hub for innovation, for thinking about how to be responsive to the market, for thinking about how we can champion sustainability projects like solar energy, and major campus renovations that are focused and shaped around how we improve the student experience, including the addition of Esports teams, so there are now Esports Bulldogs. If you don’t know, Redlands is the Bulldogs. Krista is a recognized voice in higher education. She serves on national boards, but also state boards including the Association of Independent Colleges and Universities in California, and the National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities, NAICU.

She’ll probably tell us a little more about this journey. Before stepping into higher ed, she attended the University of Missouri’s Honors College on a scholarship. After a couple of years there, she transferred to the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Go Huskers. And she graduated a year later in the top 5% of her class with a Bachelor’s of Arts in English and a minor in Philosophy. Hey, golly Pete. I was across town in Lincoln as a BA in Philosophy at Nebraska Wesleyan, Krista. I don’t know that I knew that detail. From there, she went to the College of William & Mary where she took her Juris Doctorate. She has really amazing and extensive experience. She was president at Converse University, a place where she was incredibly effective and really devoted, and was not easy for her to leave that place. And also served at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, where she was among other things, the chief of staff to President Bill de Blasio. So Krista, welcome to you.

Krista Newkirk:

Thank you, Jay. It’s always a pleasure to be with you.

Jay Lemons:

And you. And to acknowledge to our audience that Krista and I have a whole bunch of points of intersection that we have only really discovered over the course of the last six or seven years. And it’s a real honor and a joy to have you with us. And Krista, one of the goals is to ask leaders to be a little more reflective than we often allow ourselves, and to think about your own pathways to leadership with a hope that others will see and find their own pathway. And yours is a story that is really very special, and I know it will touch and probably inspire some others. And I’d love for you just to talk about some of the key events in your life, some of the people and some of both the challenge and the opportunities that really have forged the person and the leader that you are.

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah. Thanks, Jay. I would say that it started with my childhood and the formative years I spent on a cattle ranch in Missouri. My father and mother made the decision to take us to Missouri to start running a cattle ranch. I bought my first horse with savings when I was six years old, and we had some real hardships there. So we started operating it, had cattle, had great success, and then hit the recession of the late ’70s and early ’80s.

Jay Lemons:

Rough times.

Krista Newkirk:

Oh, just terrible. And we were facing foreclosure of really my father’s dream, and that stress caused him to have a stroke at the age of 40 and die, and left my mother and my two older brothers and I on this ranch with 250 head of cattle, and it was very challenging. And we were trying to talk the bank out of foreclosing on us and keep operating, and keep the dream alive. And that really set, I think, the course of my path. During that process as I watched my mother struggle to figure out all of the accounting and all of the bookkeeping and such that my dad had taken care of, the one person who seemed to have all of the answers was the estate attorney that my father had who was a woman, which was very unusual in 1980. And I, at a age thought, I want to be like her, and so I think that’s where my head was. I wanted the security of that knowledge and such. But the other influence I had was my grandfather.

And my grandfather dropped out of high school to a low, ended up years later finishing high school when my father was 12, I believe. He got his undergraduate degree and his Master’s degree in Education and became a superintendent of private schools. And Jay, his influence on me was that he made it a point every year to know every student’s name before class began by face, so he had the old-fashioned Facebook. And 50 years later we would go to church together and he could still identify people regardless of loss of hair or changes and such, and he still knew their names. And I will never have that skill, but I could see the impact he was having on lives and the joy that gave him even post-retirement, and also the fact that my grandfather wouldn’t tell anybody I was going to Law School. He was horrified that I was going to become one of those unethical lawyers. And so I started practicing law and then eventually found my way back into higher education, which I think was my true calling and passion.

Jay Lemons:

Wow. There’s so much there that I would love to pursue. Now, where was your grandfather? Where were your people from? Where were your folks from?

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah. So my grandfather was raised in northwest Missouri on a dairy farm, so quite poor. I think his mother gave birth at home, and he would tell stories. In fact, he was a fabulous storyteller. He would tell stories about riding in a hay wagon to school with lantern light, and the fact that I don’t think he owned his first pair of underwear until he was 16 years old. I mean, just an incredible to think of going from that world to where we are in the age of information and computers, and just that span of time and what has happened to society is quite hard to comprehend.

Jay Lemons:

And you as carrying a leading light in terms of that family legacy is also pretty awesome to behold. And just curious, Krista has got a wonderful partner, but also a couple of boys of your own.

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah.

Jay Lemons:

And how much of that family story and legacy do your sons have of, a lot of resilience? I mean, again, I think about your mother and what she was faced with, just amazing.

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah. One of the amazing things about my mom, the thing that I admired was her ability to find humor in any dire situation. She had the sunniest disposition, and even in the middle of just chaos around us, we would find something to laugh at. And I think that has really served me well in my life, and I think I inherited her love of humor and laughter, and finding the absurd moment in any situation. My husband I met in Law School, Lew Glenn, he’s been an incredible partner and supporter, and champion for me. I couldn’t ask for anyone to be more on my side or more willing to jump in or participate. He never grumbles or complains about attending an event. He’s often better about following things on social media than I am and telling me what’s going on, and I just appreciate that so much. My sons have been along for the ride. I have two boys, well, men. One who’s now 23 and serving in the Air force, and one who’s 20 and attending his undergraduate experience back in Appalachia, so he’s enjoying his time there.

Jay Lemons:

Yeah. Let’s turn to one of my own little crusades is in this world where our lives’ excellence and being elite, I feel sometimes we’ve lost sight of the good. And by good, I really am not talking about grade B performance, but what in your mind defines a good leader? And by that I’m really thinking about somebody who’s virtuous and effective, and ultimately successful at moving their institution.

Krista Newkirk:

I think it takes, like you said, Jay, I think it starts with integrity. I think that you have to be willing to walk the talk and set the example of expectations you have for others, and that really needs to be balanced, right? Not just a strong work ethic, but also helping people find their own boundaries and realize that they need time off, and I think you have to set those examples as well. I think it takes the ability and willingness to set your personal ego aside and really try to do what’s best for the organization. Sometimes realizing that you can’t be the strongest in that role and you need to know and to tap somebody else to step in and do something.

I think it takes a strong work ethic, but I think it takes courage in this time to be willing to work your board and take on the really hard issues that are confronting us and be honest about them. I think that you cannot move forward until you’re honest about where you are, and whether that’s your history as an institution or the financial challenges, or enrollment challenges, or cultural issues that you have. I think you have to be willing to call those out and speak truth to it and then develop a plan on what you’re going to do to drive your vision forward.

Jay Lemons:

Where does the vision come from?

Krista Newkirk:

I think it’s wrong to try to step in and immediately impose your own vision on an institution. I think there’s so much to learn when you start, that people often push for that vision. They’ll push for it in the interview process. And Jay, I don’t think that that’s right, and I push back and say, “If I were to give you a vision now, I would be aiming before I’ve listened or learned a lot.” I think it has to start with a thorough listening of the campus, different departments, faculty, staff and students, and board members and alumni, and the community. I think it starts with learning more about the history, getting a chance to feel the culture and understand where those strengths are, and then use all of that with time with people to dream together, to build upon those strengths. And that creates a vision, but I think you have to give yourself time to do that and to do it well.

Jay Lemons:

I really appreciate just getting your perspective. And just for the record, almost every search committee, when we get to the point of talking with people about, “What questions do you want to ask people?” Somebody will say, “I want to know what their vision is.” And I will say, “Is this the sort of place where you want a leader who will chart that vision themselves and say, ‘I’m mounting the pony and here’s where we’re going?’ Or is this the sort of place where you would want the leader to unlock the very best of the hopes and dreams that we have?” Because those are very different skills and I happen to believe, by the way, I would say eight or nine out of 10 in higher ed want and expect exactly what you described, and to go through that process.

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah.

Jay Lemons:

You mentioned courage and it made me think about the Competency Study that was just done this fall where courage is one of those fundamental competencies that’s needed, and it is like the close sibling to integrity. That ability to know and recognize you can’t fight every battle, but to know the really important principle of battle. And I had echoes of Jim Collins too, Confront The Brutal Facts. Here’s where we are, and that’s how we’re going to move. The other thing we know is that the importance of a team is critical for successful presidencies. What do you look for in the leaders that you invite to be a part of your teams?

Krista Newkirk:

Trust is not something I look for. Somebody can’t even come to the table to me if I don’t think that they are going to lead with principles and integrity, and a strong core value system. Collaboration, I collaborate a lot and I tell my team, it is not career limiting to tell me that I’m wrong or to challenge me in our meetings. I don’t hire you to sit back and tell me I’m doing a good job. I hire you because I value your expertise and the skills you bring that I don’t have or that even might even be a bit in friction with mine, which is perfect because you need that healthy conflict. And I think that’s where the legal background is really helpful. I want to hear all sides. I want to think about opposing views and different ways of doing things. I truly believe that in that marketplace of ideas, if you’re willing to listen and engage and be open to the best ideas, those will bubble to the top if you’re willing to engage in that process.

And I think that’s what my cabinet meetings are really about. And often my listening sessions, it’s really to hear that and to, I know we just talked about this at the CIC Conference, but the healthy conflict that you really do need to push things forward. And so I look for people who are willing to engage in that, who will be innovative. And then it’s my job to build teams with the psychological safety where people can be innovative and know that I have their back if they’ve made a decision or we’ve made a decision together knowing that there might be some risk and it may not be a home run. If we’re batting a thousand, we’re probably not swinging at everything we should or taking some risks, but also knowing that there’s accountability. If they don’t do something because of work ethic or failure to follow policy and such, then there’s personal accountability there as well. So it’s striking that right balance.

And I’m looking for people who will do that in meaningful ways. I share my administrative values and principles with everybody off the bat so that we are all operating from the same page, and that we are doing that with authenticity, and we speak back to it. Every retreat that we have, we break out those and start with that discussion. Sometimes we revise it and say, “Are there things that we need to include here? Are there tweaks that we need to change so we’re all operating from the same ground rules?” And I expect them to hold me accountable if I am not operating from those rules as well.

Jay Lemons:

I love that. I appreciate it very much. Part of our audience are people who are contemplating or who are in the midst of the journey of higher ed leadership. What’s your advice for those who aspire to leadership in higher ed?

Krista Newkirk:

I think it’s to find really good mentors and people that you can look to not just for the successes, but also their mistakes or things that you don’t want to emulate in your role. I think you have to be willing to ask and receive, and absorb the feedback that you get to make yourself better. And that means knowing where you have weaknesses, and we all have weaknesses, but knowing where you have strengths and highlighting that as well, being comfortable with who you are as a person. I think it’s really critical to not mix your identity as a person with the role. And that can be hard, but I think realizing that you are going into this role for a greater calling or something that gives you energy, if you’re just doing it for yourself or your identity, or the money, you will burn out. I think it takes a sense of purpose to do the job well and to do it for a long time. So I think you have to know yourself and know why you want to do it, and be doing it for the right reasons.

Jay Lemons:

Know your why.

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah. And build a group around you that you can turn to. Everybody, we talk about grit, but grit comes from community in so much of it. You need people who will pick you up or help you pick yourself up when you’ve been knocked down. And then I’d say focus on the relationships that you build. Don’t look for the win at the cost of somebody. You’ve got to look for the win-wins and building those long-term relationships. It is a small community, and you have to be thinking about how you are making decisions for the long term.

Jay Lemons:

Awesome advice. Thanks so much. We could do the entire program around the next question. When you step back, what are the most critical challenges that you see leaders facing in higher ed today?

Krista Newkirk:

I think fundamentally it’s the questioning of the value of higher education, the underlying sense of resentment toward higher education for a variety of reasons, many of them very valid. I think that starts though with a policy and philosophy change at the very top of our country in terms of higher education as a public good or as a private interest. And we used to hear bipartisan focus on education and higher education as a public good, as the economic driver and social driver that would push our country forward. And I don’t hear that same commitment to that anymore, which is, to me, shocking in the age of information that we are not focused on the growth of our nation, on the future of generations and their education ability. And I think it goes back to also the need for education in a strongly operating and positioning or positioned democracy. So if you go back to the liberal arts and the tribarium, and the original concept of liberal arts, it was based in that idea of educating the citizenry to be engaged in the leading of their country as a democracy.

And I think that this is a critical time where we need to reconnect to that purpose for our country going forward. I think the wealth disparity that has been growing and the loss of the middle class plays into all of this in terms of how it gets valued and in terms of philanthropy, and what’s coming for the future, and the general approach of people as a we community versus an I. And I think we’ve lost that sense of we and we are more focused on individual rights and focus, and social appeal and such, and I think it’s the wrong question and the wrong focus. And I think that’s the underlying issues that drives a lot of these challenges. And it goes to the enrollment issue. The demographic cliff is certainly an issue, but if we were engaging more people to attend college and adult learners who lost out with COVID or others, we wouldn’t be facing the enrollment cliff like we are. We’ve got to be thinking about this work differently, and it means focusing on policy change, I think, to start to drive that.

Jay Lemons:

It is January the 10th the day we are sharing this conversation. And I note that because I was heartened by an op-ed today written by two MIT students calling for there to be a doubling of the Pell Grant. But Krista, in the course of their column, which I would hold up for all, wow, out of the mouths of these students, are many of the themes that you just articulated, that this is a public good as well as a private good, that there’s a need for our democracy to be recharged. And by the way, as two children, you and me, both who studied in places that were core to Jefferson’s philosophy, I heard echoes of what you were articulating that are incredibly meaningful, and get that framing right and the rest of those challenges are solvable. I really appreciate your stepping back to that fundamental level.

Krista Newkirk:

It’s one of the reasons I think the North Carolina University system and North Carolina as a state has had a remarkable success with the research triangle and a lot of the work that they’ve done. And it goes back to the North Carolina Constitution which requires that require higher education be free to the extent practicable. We should be thinking about that as a country as well in terms of yes, there should be definite support for public and private institutions and that choice, but there should be funding mechanisms that make that available to all who are able and capable, and willing and desire that.

Jay Lemons:

Yeah, absolutely. I’m going to move us into what I call a lightning round. You can answer with as much length as you want, but hopefully the questions are shorter, so here we go. Who most influenced you?

Krista Newkirk:

I would say as a leader, my father-in-law who was Rear Admiral Lew Glenn was a huge impact on me. He was the CEO of the USS New Jersey Battleship.

Jay Lemons:

Wow.

Krista Newkirk:

He served in Vietnam and was the flag lieutenant for Admiral Zumwalt. And he had this down-to-earth approach where he would walk around a ship, talk to everybody, eat in the enlisted mess halls, climb into the steam engines, the boilers in his whites to see what was going on. Just curious over communicator, willing to sacrifice his career. He actually put his career on the line to do the right thing, and put into place a continuous improvement plan for the Navy. And his leadership is something I reflect on a lot. In fact, I have his medallion on my desk. It’s the buck, and it’s where it stops here. I keep it with me, and it’s one of those things that motivates me.

Jay Lemons:

That’s neat. Do you still have him with you in your life?

Krista Newkirk:

No, sadly I don’t. I wish I did. I would love to be able to ask him questions.

Jay Lemons:

Yeah. By the way, just what a beautiful thing to say about an in-law. How about a book that’s had great influence, a book or books that have had great influence on you?

Krista Newkirk:

There are a lot. I would say that Dare to Lead by Brene Brown has been one that has touched me personally as a leader and made me focus on, what are my responsibilities in this role in this time. And I find that to be… And how you engage your authentic self and your vulnerabilities in this leadership role, and I just appreciate the wisdom there. There’s others. Traction. I think one that really helped me when I started was, So You’re in Charge – Now What? That Chancellor Dubois gave me, he was a huge influence on me as well. And so I think staying curious and reading a lot on leadership and such is a great thing to do.

Jay Lemons:

Wonderful. What’s your fondest memory of your undergraduate experience? You ended up being in two really wonderful institutions, but-

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah.

Jay Lemons:

Your experience may have been a little, it’s different as a consequence of, in some ways, the family struggle.

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah. I went to the University of Missouri. Really, it wasn’t the place I wanted to go, but it was a really good place for me to go, and I went there because it was essentially free for me being a Missouri resident, and transitioned to Nebraska. I graduated in three years, working 30 hours a week.

Jay Lemons:

Wow.

Krista Newkirk:

And didn’t get the full college experience. I didn’t study abroad. There were a lot of things I missed out on that I want to make sure that our students, many of whom are working as well and trying to make sure they graduate on time. I want them to have those experiences that I didn’t have. But I would say that as an undergrad, I did some amazing independent studies with faculty members at the University of Nebraska in Chicano Literature and Women’s Literature and African-American Literature, and I loved those. And of course, Nebraska football was really pretty awesome.

Jay Lemons:

There you go. There are a half a dozen worship experiences that make Memorial Stadium the third-largest city year after year, after year, all of our lives. Hey, you mentioned what led you to have this notion that I want to be like that woman, but if you hadn’t worked in higher ed, I’m mindful that you have worked outside of higher ed, but are there paths that you didn’t choose that if you weren’t in higher ed, what else might you have done?

Krista Newkirk:

I loved litigating. My whole goal was to practice medical malpractice. That’s what I thought I was going to do when I was in college. I’ve practiced in a lot of areas of law and never practiced in medical malpractice at all. Admiralty? Sure. Construction litigation, but I would still be practicing law. I think I did enjoy it. I think the aspects of it that I liked the most was the strategy part of it, working through conflict, finding solutions that were creative. Yeah, there was a lot there that I enjoyed, but I also appreciate not billing my life in six minute increments anymore.

Jay Lemons:

Amen to that.

Krista Newkirk:

Yeah.

Jay Lemons:

Is there a favorite campus tradition at a place that you’ve attended or worked that you would hold up?

Krista Newkirk:

I love the Feast of Lights at Redlands. It is how the holiday season really starts for me. I don’t feel like it’s Christmas until I go to the Feast of Lights, and it is a beautiful Christmas music and pageantry, and tableau that they put together every year, and it just warms your heart. You can’t come away from that feeling miserly or curmudgeonly, or down about the Christmas spirit. People come together, and there’s a lot of hugging and such. I love that.

Jay Lemons:

Wonderful. Is that an event that is strictly for the campus community or does it serve people from the larger community as well?

Krista Newkirk:

Larger community. People come from all over and it fills the whole chapel. It is really special.

Jay Lemons:

If you ever find yourself in Southern California, listeners take in the Feast of Lights. Well, Krista, one of the things that, one of the traditions of this little program is I really like to also invite our guests to talk about the distinctive qualities, if you will, the organizational DNA that the University of Redlands has that makes it worthy of having the claim on your time and your talent, and your energy. And as someone who knows you reasonably well, it’s just really awesome to see somebody who I perceive to be, and I know that not every day is the same, but really thriving in the position. So tell us about that claim on your heart and soul that Redlands has.

Krista Newkirk:

Well, Jay, I feel like I have to mention that you did bring me to this job, and I think when you first mentioned California to me, I laughed at you and I said, “I’m not going to California.”

Jay Lemons:

Yes, you did.

Krista Newkirk:

And I tell people that story all the time because what you said to me was, “You should look at it because it’s a gem, Krista, and I don’t say that very often.” And I took that to heart. And Jay, you were exactly right. It is a gem, and it starts with the people. The people here are just lovely. There is a feeling of being not just a member of the community, but a citizen here that is special. There is a student involvement and a willingness to listen to the students and let them lead appropriately that has shaped the history of the institution, I think, in really fundamental ways. And some of those ways include the fact that it’s had this community service learning aspect for over 40 years, and the students all have to engage in community service internships before they graduate. So every year the university gives back more than a hundred thousand volunteer hours to our community. It’s one of the first new American universities. There was a paper written about it by our former-

Jay Lemons:

The Ugly Duckling.

Krista Newkirk:

The Ugly Duckling of Higher Education by Frank Wong. And I read that at Converse when I first started my presidency there, and it helped me shape how I led at Converse. And then when Redlands came around, I thought, “Oh, that’s where that paper was around.” And so it’s this deep commitment to liberal arts, but also with a pragmatic and an applied approach to the classroom that helps students see how they’re going to use that, and then the professional schools that are a part of it. The connection to ESRI and our Geospatial Institute, our impact is really incredible.

That’s a toolbox that we are applying in everything that we do, whether it’s mapping birds or it’s mapping the Parable of the Sower and the storytelling that students do. It’s been really powerful for us as a tool for many different things, including social justice and change, and environmental impacts and such. The fact that we had a study abroad campus in Salzburg for 60 years is pretty incredible, and that we’ve had this connection and students have talked about this transformational education they received there. And then I would say the Johnston Center for Integrative Studies that we started in 1969 is really remarkable. It was this thinking about how you allow students to craft their own degree, put together their own contract with faculty, and how they’re going to develop as whole people, and the students and the alumni who come from that program have a really unique world perspective. It’s almost like Montessori in college in a way that it’s really, it’s an exciting thing to witness or to be a part of.

Jay Lemons:

Well, thank you for laying out all of that. And for our listeners, they would probably need to know what in the world is up with Och Tamale?

Krista Newkirk:

Och Tamale. Yes, that is a long saying that we’ve had, now it’s been over a hundred years. So the Och Tamale is a chant that we do at the University of Redlands of nonsense words. And it was started when the university was competing against, I believe it was Occidental in an athletic game. And Occidental started to chant in Latin. And our students who are very informal and down to earth thought that that was very pretentious. And so they went back and wrote the Och Tamale as a response and chanted it ever since. And so if you walk down our student center area, you’ll see the flags that have the words, Och Tamale gazolly gazump deyump deyatty yahoo, and it goes on with all of those nonsense words and we adore it.

Jay Lemons:

I love it. Well, Krista, that’s a perfect draw to a close here in a way that I don’t think I could have imagined coming to. I don’t know why it jumped into my head. But thank you for joining us on Leaders on Leadership. I’m really glad to have had you, and just appreciate you, but also the willingness to share your thoughts and insights, and your wisdom about leadership.

Krista Newkirk:

Oh, thank you, Jay. And thank you for leading me here. It’s been a wonderful partnership I’ve had with you these years. I really appreciate it.

Jay Lemons:

Well, may it continue. Listeners, we welcome your suggestions and thoughts for leaders we should feature in upcoming segments. You can send those suggestions to leadershippodcast@academicsearch.org. You can find our podcasts wherever you find your podcasts. It’s also available in the academic search website. Leaders on Leadership is brought to you by Academic Search and the American Academic Leadership Institute. Together, our mission is to support colleges and universities during times of transition and through leadership development activities that serve current and future generations of leaders in the academy. What a great pleasure it’s been to have Krista Newkirk on our show today. Thank you again, Krista, for joining us.

Krista Newkirk:

Thank you, Jay.